Cult M
I talked to two Mormons at my home today for 1.5 hours.
Two very young men. Quite inexperienced with the bible and apologetics. But they had enough courage to leave home and travel overseas away from contact with their family and preach a false gospel to the world. How strong is the human will.
I am well prepared. Armed with the truth. Truth as my defender. I once heard a pastor say that he doesn’t debate with Mormons anymore because all he is doing is training them to become better Mormon-Apologists. But I went ahead and invited them in.
One had come from HK not long ago. The other from USA. They seemed pretty ignorant of the world, and they seemed pretty ignorant of what Christians believe.
As my friends know, I can be quite passionate about what I believe. These two poor people had no idea what the truth was. All they know is that the mainstream churches have been corrupted and that the truth has been restored by a guy called Joseph Smith.
When I told them Jesus was God, they had no objections. I got them mixed up with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Mormons believe that Jesus is a god. Jesus is just another god. Also, there are many other gods which we don’t know about. They believe that we know the god of this earth only because he happened to be the god of this earth. Otherwise we would know some other god. Mormons actually believe that we are literally children of god. They believe literally that Jesus IS a son of god (not the son of god). That’s why Jesus is a god. Because gods give birth to gods. Get the logic?
I made my position clear from the start. Mormonism is a cult. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Joseph Smith was a little educated American.
I found out from them that they had lines of prophets, pretty much like the Catholics have popes. The Mormon lines of prophets act like a pope in that they reveal what their god has to say to them. Their words are inspired by their god just like the Catholics.
I challenged them on their believe about the prophet. Their latest prophet is an American called Gordon something. I shouldn’t have done that. Not because my arguments were flawed, but because as the pastor said, it would only prepare them for their next victim. Notice how their prophets are Americans? And all biblical prophets are Israelites? I asked them why they believed that Gordon was a prophet. He said that he said good things. Eg. “pornography is bad”. I am a very logical person. That answer was so poor. Saying good things doesn’t make a guy a prophet. They had no more replies for that chain of reasoning.
I also challenged them on the fact that they believed that there are many gods. While in the bible ( they use the KJV, and they kept quoting bible passages on me ) there is never any mention of any other gods. In fact the bible is very clear that there is only one God. I couldn’t quote verses though. But I told them to go and ask Any Jew in the world, and they will tell them that there is only one God.
I was stumped by one passage. I never gave much thought to it before. It is the idea of going to a place and waiting to be judged. It was the idea of baptizing for the dead. The repentance of the dead. They quoted 1 Peter 3:18-21. I know the first sentence too well. But the next bit seemed to have not registered…
I kept drilling on the fact that Joe was a false prophet. And that the extra information that they provide were never mentioned in the bible. And the good stuff in the book of Mormons were Already mentioned in the bible. Joe added no good information. He only added false information.
I did manage to give them the Christian Gospel. During my “2wtl” I emphasized (over 20times) that my God and their god were two very different gods. My Jesus and their Jesus were two different Jesus’. I gave them the Christian concept of God, Sin, Death, Survivorship and Lordship.
I left them speechless for a few seconds… they had no idea how to respond. I hope I am not training them to defend against Christianity. A little like the Borg.
I tried to get their names. They wouldn’t tell me. “church rules”. They were only allowed to give last names. But I did get the HK guy’s name. (some people think I am manipulative hehehe). I might contact him some time. But very busy lately. I could sense in him that he knew that there were some truth in what I said. If you know me, then you know how worked up I can become when I talk about this subject. But he wasn’t able to accept it. He had his partner with him. He had been assigned a mission. Poor guy. I wish I could bring him to my church. If only he applied his dedication and bravery to the work of the Real God.
When we left, I told them I will pray for them. One of them told me to pray to god that I may know that Joseph Smith is a real prophet of god. That didn’t sound right. I didn’t know how to reply. But as I think of it now. I can see the flaw. In order to know Joseph Smith, I would have to pray to god. THEIR gOD. But my God is more powerful. My Jesus is more powerful. Is more just, is more righteous, is more wise, is more unique. And I will pray to no other god but my God. I should have asked them to pray to my God. Next time. God willing.
I will pray for them. To my God.
Two very young men. Quite inexperienced with the bible and apologetics. But they had enough courage to leave home and travel overseas away from contact with their family and preach a false gospel to the world. How strong is the human will.
I am well prepared. Armed with the truth. Truth as my defender. I once heard a pastor say that he doesn’t debate with Mormons anymore because all he is doing is training them to become better Mormon-Apologists. But I went ahead and invited them in.
One had come from HK not long ago. The other from USA. They seemed pretty ignorant of the world, and they seemed pretty ignorant of what Christians believe.
As my friends know, I can be quite passionate about what I believe. These two poor people had no idea what the truth was. All they know is that the mainstream churches have been corrupted and that the truth has been restored by a guy called Joseph Smith.
When I told them Jesus was God, they had no objections. I got them mixed up with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Mormons believe that Jesus is a god. Jesus is just another god. Also, there are many other gods which we don’t know about. They believe that we know the god of this earth only because he happened to be the god of this earth. Otherwise we would know some other god. Mormons actually believe that we are literally children of god. They believe literally that Jesus IS a son of god (not the son of god). That’s why Jesus is a god. Because gods give birth to gods. Get the logic?
I made my position clear from the start. Mormonism is a cult. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. Joseph Smith was a little educated American.
I found out from them that they had lines of prophets, pretty much like the Catholics have popes. The Mormon lines of prophets act like a pope in that they reveal what their god has to say to them. Their words are inspired by their god just like the Catholics.
I challenged them on their believe about the prophet. Their latest prophet is an American called Gordon something. I shouldn’t have done that. Not because my arguments were flawed, but because as the pastor said, it would only prepare them for their next victim. Notice how their prophets are Americans? And all biblical prophets are Israelites? I asked them why they believed that Gordon was a prophet. He said that he said good things. Eg. “pornography is bad”. I am a very logical person. That answer was so poor. Saying good things doesn’t make a guy a prophet. They had no more replies for that chain of reasoning.
I also challenged them on the fact that they believed that there are many gods. While in the bible ( they use the KJV, and they kept quoting bible passages on me ) there is never any mention of any other gods. In fact the bible is very clear that there is only one God. I couldn’t quote verses though. But I told them to go and ask Any Jew in the world, and they will tell them that there is only one God.
I was stumped by one passage. I never gave much thought to it before. It is the idea of going to a place and waiting to be judged. It was the idea of baptizing for the dead. The repentance of the dead. They quoted 1 Peter 3:18-21. I know the first sentence too well. But the next bit seemed to have not registered…
I kept drilling on the fact that Joe was a false prophet. And that the extra information that they provide were never mentioned in the bible. And the good stuff in the book of Mormons were Already mentioned in the bible. Joe added no good information. He only added false information.
I did manage to give them the Christian Gospel. During my “2wtl” I emphasized (over 20times) that my God and their god were two very different gods. My Jesus and their Jesus were two different Jesus’. I gave them the Christian concept of God, Sin, Death, Survivorship and Lordship.
I left them speechless for a few seconds… they had no idea how to respond. I hope I am not training them to defend against Christianity. A little like the Borg.
I tried to get their names. They wouldn’t tell me. “church rules”. They were only allowed to give last names. But I did get the HK guy’s name. (some people think I am manipulative hehehe). I might contact him some time. But very busy lately. I could sense in him that he knew that there were some truth in what I said. If you know me, then you know how worked up I can become when I talk about this subject. But he wasn’t able to accept it. He had his partner with him. He had been assigned a mission. Poor guy. I wish I could bring him to my church. If only he applied his dedication and bravery to the work of the Real God.
When we left, I told them I will pray for them. One of them told me to pray to god that I may know that Joseph Smith is a real prophet of god. That didn’t sound right. I didn’t know how to reply. But as I think of it now. I can see the flaw. In order to know Joseph Smith, I would have to pray to god. THEIR gOD. But my God is more powerful. My Jesus is more powerful. Is more just, is more righteous, is more wise, is more unique. And I will pray to no other god but my God. I should have asked them to pray to my God. Next time. God willing.
I will pray for them. To my God.
sad 4 thos devotd to lies, lites on jonno! sho dum som rel sik miterial ^^
Posted by
Anonymous |
10:17 am, October 11, 2007
Very sad... It's a requirement for Mormons Males to do door knocking for two years. But still, they are unsure whether they can enter the kingdom of God.
Posted by
Anonymous |
10:59 pm, October 12, 2007